The Reason FWD is Hated

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 09/05/2016 at 20:25 • Filed to: Thoughts

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I was just thinking about how power going to the rear is the most natural powertrain around. Look at bicycles, boats, and even animals. But then I started wondering about where the engine would be in these applications and determined that the 911 is pretty much a motor boat (which helps explains why it works so well). Front-engine, FWD is a crazy setup when you think about every animal and vehicle created.

I’m liking the station this train of thought is stopping at. Let’s get interactive!

FWD : Get on the ground and move yourself around with just your arms, dragging your legs behind you. Might be fun for a minute but you’re going to be worn out and putting in a lot of effort to not go far very quickly.

AWD : Crawl on your hands and knees. You’ll notice that you move MUCH better. You can probably conquer just about any obstacle that comes in your way including couches and pets. No worries over stability but you’re still placing a lot of wear on your body.

RWD : Get up and walk, trot, jog, run! All of a sudden who cares that you have less stability and can’t slowly plop onto some terrain you shouldn’t have your shoes on anyways? You’ve already covered more ground with nearly no apparent wear and tear, probably feeling fresh as a frisking too! Now jump and think about the amount of power you’re able to put down and then imagine trying to jump from your hands and knees or just from your hands. Power to the rear and only the rear is what’s best, don’t let this AWD propaganda fool you because it’s making people professional crawlers that think their marathoners when they just need to learn the skill of standing on their own two feet!

Being the fastest and most fun FWD car around the Nurburgring is like winning a wheelbarrow race without a partner, sure people will be impressed and cheer and have a great time but it’s the saddest and least relavent plastic trophy you’ll ever take home. But if you don’t plan on going fast, far, or for long, you’ll find more entertainment dragging yourself 10ft than crawling or running that same distance.

Think about all the highest mileage vehicles that come to mind, where is the power going? You can crawl for a long time but you can walk a longer ways. All I’m trying to point out is that there are times when dragging yourself around is fun, crawling around is adorable, and running is getting the job done. Just make sure you’re doing the right one at the right time.

S65 > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:30

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I thought it was because they couldn’t drift.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:33

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not to kill your theory but the first rwd mammal comes in at 11 (i’n not including that bat)

Wobbles the Mind > S65 09/05/2016 at 20:34

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If automakers would start placing more than one reverse gear in cars (like all my emails have asked), then this wouldn’t be an issue!

InFierority Complex > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:37

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Yup, pulling from the front never works long distance ;)

Wobbles the Mind > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/05/2016 at 20:39

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Psh, all those AWD system are heavily RWD bias. The fronts are practically traction control! Now if we could just put more power down in the rear...humans just need an ECU tune to stomp a Cheetah in the quarter meter! Kangaroos are jacked as hell so I know they could do it with higher psi in the pouch.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/05/2016 at 20:40

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Most of these mammals derive their power from the rear. Looks at the muscles of my greyhound on the rear compared to the front. Its like a spring of a back.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:41

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Some Unimog trims have 3 reverse gears for pulling trains.

Wobbles the Mind > InFierority Complex 09/05/2016 at 20:43

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Damn straight, everything in that picture is dead now! Anyways that’s towing so their lap times are pretty shitty.

Kanaric > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:45

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The reason FWD is hated is there are so many shit FWDs and the ones that are decent usually don’t even have a limited slip. A properly set up FWD is good, most of them are not properly set up.

InFierority Complex > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:48

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4hp roadster

AntiSpeed > InFierority Complex 09/05/2016 at 20:49

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Enzo Ferrari would approve this post.

Wobbles the Mind > Kanaric 09/05/2016 at 20:52

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*looks at GT-R LM Nismo* Im still going to go with FWD, no matter how well setup, not besting either AWD or RWD. Fun in the right circumstances but it’s more an activity than a sport.

MrDakka > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:55

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Umm your RWD analogy of running is technically 2 wheel all wheel drive

You know what else is 2 wheel all wheel drive?

djmt1 > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 20:56

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Counterpoint: Humans are naturally front wheel drive because our feet handle both steering and momentum. This means we can get up off the ground and walk like normal people.

RWD would leave us back on the floor using our elbows to dictate what direction we are travelling. Sure our elbows would be uncorrupted by power but it is rather inconvenient wouldn’t you say?

All in all, I wish we were AWD because I commute by foot and there have been many a day when I could of used a couple more legs.

Wobbles the Mind > djmt1 09/05/2016 at 21:01

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We steer from our upperbodies though, especially as speeds increase, we just happen to have rear wheel steering as well at low speeds like a 911 turbo.

Batman the Horse > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 21:03

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djmt1 > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 21:06

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No, our upper body is like active aero. It allows us to corner at greater speed on demand. You try changing direction after locking your feet straight forward and see how far that gets you.

Wobbles the Mind > MrDakka 09/05/2016 at 21:06

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Nah, we just get everywhere doing a wheelie.

Wobbles the Mind > djmt1 09/05/2016 at 21:16

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But your feet don’t change directions ever, your ankles don’t turn and your feet stay straight just like rear wheels on a car. Your hips change the direction by acting like the axel and impacting the position of the wheels to one another on a surface through its angle. You’ve really got me thinking tonight about things I’ve never thought of.

djmt1 > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 21:29

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What? Of course your feet change direction. You could argue the hips are like a steering wheel but your feet are definitely the wheels since they are what make contact with the ground. Either way we need one of those anatomy diagrams but the labels replaced with car components. Now that’s how you get the kids interested in science or cars or whatever kids aren’t into these days.

NostalgicCarLife > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 21:40

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Putting the power in the front actually makes a lot more sense, from a mechanical standpoint, than putting it behind.

Wobbles the Mind > djmt1 09/05/2016 at 21:46

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“Now Billy, your body is like a very expensive car. And Suzie, your body is a different but equally expensive kind of car. What you want to do is make sure you never come into contact with each other because neither of you nor your families can afford the damages, insurance claims, and liability issues that will immediately follow you both for the rest of your lives!” - Message brought to you by the Adults for Abstinence and Automobiles Association.

Chasaboo > MrDakka 09/05/2016 at 22:28

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I still maintain Top Gear USA is better than UK. Rut, Tanner, and whoever that other guy was, just crack me up.

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > Wobbles the Mind 09/05/2016 at 23:10

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RWD is primarily preferable because of inertia and inertia’s effect on frictional forces.

An object at rest desires to stay at rest; when force is applied to said object, it’s inclination to stay at rest causes it to lean away from the direction the force is attempting to move it. Hence, a vehicle at rest will always lean rearward when the drivetrain attempts to move it forward. This creates a shift in the vehicle’s center of gravity, effectively placing more weight over the rear wheels and less on the front. In order for the power being channeled to the drive wheels to be useful, said drive wheels must apply sufficient friction upon the surface for the wheels to move the car rather than themselves (wheelspin/burnout). With the car’s inertia now shifted rearward, RWD will have the most efficient use of power, whereas FWD is likely to induce wheelspin from the reduced friction.

FWD may overcome the shortcoming by being forward-biased in weight distribution (tranny up front) and not having enough raw torque to overcome the weight bias.

Done nerding. Humans are unicycles. Is a unicycle FWD or RWD?

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > InFierority Complex 09/06/2016 at 07:49

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You have died from dysentery!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Wobbles the Mind 09/06/2016 at 07:55

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I used to think FWD was the devil. But then I saw GTIs and old Hondas at autocross and then my mind changed a little bit. After doing a ride along in a GTI driven by a good driver, I have some respect for those cars and FWD in general. I always thought FWD = understeer, but if the car is built right then it can oversteer just as readily as a Miata. Sure you might not be able to do smokey donuts but what use does that actually serve? And high power applications only make sense in RWD/AWD if you would still like to turn the vehicle. But it still leaves FWD to be useful from any real world, street driven vehicle.

Kanaric > Wobbles the Mind 09/06/2016 at 13:29

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That isn’t a good comparison. Of course in higest levels of expensive racing AWD is superior, and btw that car is an AWD car.

However if you have a lightweight FWD car with a LSD you can dominate the BTCC, autocross, WTCC, etc. It’s been done. I don’t care about 500+hp monsters in formula one or 24 hours of le mans

Unless BTCC is not a sport? It’s proven to work well, it wins races, people in sport choose them.

When I stop seeing FWD win trophies i’ll agree with you. For me and you it is fine. We are not in the Le Mans series. A skilled person with a FWD can wreck both of us in both our cars and do it OFTEN.

Keep in mind I haven’t owned a FWD since the 90s. I am a fan of RWD cars.